Lisa’s CCK08 Wordpress Blog

October 10, 2008

A Contrarian Chart

Filed under: Week 5 — Lisa M Lane @ 11:14 pm


  1. Wow Lisa – from my perspective this doesn’t say a lot for networks and collectives. I would add to the group with low moral weight – sense of belonging, recognition of identity and norms of the group, feelings of connectitivy and strong emotion, and with high moral weight – responsibility for each other’s learning … and I would have a bigger gap between networks and groups.
    Thanks for this perspective.

    Comment by jennymackness — October 12, 2008 @ 9:02 pm

  2. […] usually like very much Lisa’s posts but I was upset by her Highly Exaggerated View of the Implications of Groups, Networks and Collectives. I mean, it depends on specific context so that it is difficult to make such a general […]

    Pingback by CCK08: A couple of questions « Insegnare Apprendere Mutare — October 12, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  3. Hi Lisa,
    Thank you for the Contrarian Chart. That’s exactly how I feel about the group/network/collective issue. Man is a social animal. We are born alone and we die alone, but we do everything else in groups. The thought that I would wake up one day and there would be no groups (only networks and collectives) is really scary.

    Comment by Natasa — October 12, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

  4. @Jenny — Thanks! those are excellent considerations.

    @Andreas — I’m sorry it was upsetting; please remember that it’s just exaggeration to make a point. 🙂

    @Natasa — thanks for reminding me that I must write a post about my own learning style, which actually isn’t group-like at all. But I do think the problem of being cast out on ones own to look about for connections is something to consider.

    Comment by Lisa — October 13, 2008 @ 1:25 pm

  5. I don’t understand what your are doing with this chart, Lisa. If “personal autonomy” is supposed to be greatest in a group, and most suppressed in a collective, why would the arrow head upwards as it goes toward “collective”?

    Collectives are usually arranged around some overpowering ideology maintained by force, and by a leader or by a few individuals in a group who actually run things, and coerce others, even as they mask their actions behind “the group”. So why “unintentional aggregation” for a collective, which can have a very marked sense of purpose? “Commitment” and “getting something accomplished” in fact are two powerful and persuasive characteristics of the collective that enables humans even to subsume their identity and will in the first place, say in a Communist campaign like industrialization or collectivization in agriculture.

    I’ll say here what I’ve noted in other threads on this topic: you don’t seem to have a notion of “collaboration”, cooperation through autonomous individuals not ceding their individuality or freedom, but collaborating with more respect for that autonomy, and more ability to pull away, which saves you from all the vicissitudes of these three entities.

    Comment by Catherine Fitzpatrick — October 14, 2008 @ 11:29 am

  6. @Catherine “collective” here is as defined as it is in our readings and coursework, in particular the article by Anderson and Dron, not ordinary parlance. In that sort of “collective” personal autonomy is at its highest point and participation may be unintentional, as when we buy a book at Amazon and affect its presentation to others who order similar books. And there are a number of notions not on the chart — this was comparing the three areas we were working on for Week 5 only.

    Comment by Lisa — October 14, 2008 @ 1:31 pm

  7. Lisa it has been 25 years since anyone has put my name on a list under the heading Colleague. I can’t even process it and I’m thrilled it was done by you, someone I really admire. It’s amazing how such a little thing happening maybe once in a lifetime is enough affirmation. Thank you for being so generous.

    Comment by ruthdemitroff — October 17, 2008 @ 4:32 am

  8. Ruth, if you mouse over your name, you’ll see I put the word “wisdom” to help me remember why I want to read your work. It’s wonderful to have someone in the class who understands the greater importance of life, to help keep us grounded while others fly around in the ether-net.

    Comment by Lisa — October 17, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

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